Doing whatever it takes to make (1) happen. I see many engineers spend close to 200k for MBA from top universities and then become Product or Sr. I'm happy with my decision, but in hindsight, I didnt really have a good grasp of what these jobs entailed or know what I was signing up for. I just feel like doing some admin tasks, documentation, or w, Just cleared my rounds for Indeed PM. A few comments on blind do not constitute an industry norm. It can push you to get better. Omnis qui molestias et repellendus earum mollitia dignissimos. I'm considering moving to product management. Ive got about 2 years of experience in product in supply chain/logistics. Howz the pay and work life balance? Cant compare principal with SDM. Product Manager I am a bit confused. Seriously? I think a thread like this might be helpful to those of us that want to take advantage of how hot the job market is, without getting lowballed. Lol.Current TC 400kL5", L5 is someone maybe 4 years out of school. Neque et quam quisquam cumque numquam temporibus. The L7 Finance role was a people manager ro, Do senior or director level product managers hardly ever work, especially at FAANG or similar top companies? Enabling and driving the development team to launch various features. This tension is typical of an organization that has a murky understanding of what product managers do. But got down levelled to L6 in the hiring committee. Your job has two parts. Have deep empathy and communicate with customers, drive long term strategic impact with stakeholders so basically the PM adds value by knowing ho, Can someone who got into Amazon recently as PM-T L5 share their offer? Learn more about how to ace your PM interview at Exponent's PM interview course. TC: $117K (At agri-tech start-up in Austi, I have attempted product management interviews at Google, Amazon , Facebook and failed at all of them. Technical background (coding and architecture) helps if you are PMing features but as a SWE that should be covered already. Built In reports an average salary of $119,936 for US-based software engineers based on responses from tech companies. Meta SWE beats salary by probably 14-20%, RSU by 200-300% is my guess. As discussed above, an engineer's strong technical skill set is a valuable asset that can be leveraged to transition into product management. After all, your focus should be on the product and the customer. That doesn't mean micromanaging from . There are SO many former bankers/financiers who simply went and bought companies with some savings and ran them because they had the fundamental skills needed to run a business, grow cashflows sustainably, and make good business decisions. In statistics, a confounder (also confounding variable, confounding factor, extraneous determinant or lurking variable) is a variable that influences both the dependent variable and independent variable, causing a spurious association.Confounding is a causal concept, and as such, cannot be described in terms of correlations or associations. Anyone kind enough to guide me o, Hi, Any Varian Medical Systems Product Manager or Marketing guy on Blind? Generally, a software engineer is oriented toward engineering and coding a solution, whereas product managers are more collaborative, strategic, and must have a more holistic perspective on the solution. How you perceive the points of friction above is critical. I have around 6 years of experience as a PM and have an MBA. Ever. What is the basic difference between these 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become Engineering Managers . I've been a TPM for 8 years now and wanna transition to Product Manager. According to Indeed, the average salary for a product manager in 2023 is $89,861 per year, while the average salary for a project manager is $77,162 per year. Can ya'll please drop some names that actually have true product roles and absolutely not project/program management. The tech economy is way larger than the handful of BBs and EBs. Anything else that I missed? Per our 2021 average product manager salary and career guide, a product manager earns on average $96,522/year, while a technical product manager earns on average $100,074/year.. . Mechanical engineers work on things like bridges and power plants while software engineers work on software applications. How do you actually know if you qualify to become an EM/ SDM at a tech company ? I think you're conflating engineering management with product management. The core product development team typically includes representatives from six functions: innovation, product management, project management, product marketing, engineering, and operations. And it's certainly worth pursuing if you have the skills and the appetite. My Google journey began in 2013, as a starry-eyed intern on the YouTube team taking pictures outside the dessert-shaped Android figurines in . Tons of unicorn tech startups, FAANG, and other countless app companies on both coasts that NEED software engineers. On a daily basis, a product manager attends meetings and interacts with several other teams, such as engineering, design, and marketing. In terms of concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what a PM does can vary a fair bit. Ive only ever been a Product Manager at Google though I believe my description of the job to be largely true of most other companies. A Project Manager prioritizes a project's completion on time, on budget, and within the defined scope and project plan, as time and budget allows. Eng, Go to company page I know senior managers in Big4 TAS that work 20-40 hours / week and make $300k+, but you guys all shit on Big4 for some reason. It is probably not always sunshine and roses over there. Why I Left Google (2019) Follow @debarghya_das. Ea asperiores sunt optio commodi ut aut. Would be really nice to get paid in equity from them. fy76ys post isnt terrible, but is statistically incorrect. Would you recommend. You will clarify and revisit your product strategy through its lifecycle. The recruiter told me that these roles would start at L5. Also which career path is better for the longer run to climb the corporate ladder?How do the roles and responsibilities vary ?Details will be appreciated Tax 270k, Go to company page People can't handle that they made the wrong career choice. Koun Han. Meta, Go to company page Depends on companies tbh. Do you want to join a company that PM pay is as shitty as Eng pay? These cookies are used to collect information about how you interact with our website and allow us to remember you. Get free interview guides, insider tips, and courses. Any product manager who has worked in software companies for any amount of time has probably experienced this breakdown. I keep trying to edit this dumpster fire of a comment and fucking it up. Clearly defined requirements help engineers streamline their efforts. Ask any questions about resumes, interviews, jobs, and more. Some startups are absolute sweatshops though. A software engineer is more siloed in their duties. Will update with t, Which company has happiest product management employees at lead/staff/principal level? But they're more likely to become people managers, leading groups of product managers. WSO ranks EBs. or Want to Sign up with your social account? LinkedIn, Go to company page WSO Free Modeling Series - Now Open Through, +Bonus: Get 27 financial modeling templates in swipe file, Great Discussion on Blind: Software Engineers talking about working 15-20 hrs a week and earning 400k, Low Testosterone in IB (or high finance in general), Care for eachother, Care for the Community, Look to Grow, Tier 2 RX (Ducera/Gugg) vs MM IBD (HL, Blair, Piper, Baird). They talk with stakeholders on the business side - like product marketers, salespeople, customer success managers, user researchers, and users themselves - to understand what users want. But it's often overlooked that the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the job of a software engineer. Using the product backlog and sprint backlog as a guide, the product manager leads the development team to execute on the product roadmap and create value for the user. As an engineer, even as a junior developer, you're responsible for building and shipping software. Microsoft Yet WSObecomes the shit show that it is where everyone is asking about advice on how to lose their virginity and guys are literally working 80-100 hours a week for the first 4 years of their careers with literally no chance at a social life. You owe it to yourself to combine forces and win together. Uber. IC is better in recessions where its much easier to find job as IC. I have 15 years experience as a business analyst in the USA. 2005-2023 Wall Street Oasis. Comment what roles you think are more stressful than the Product Manger. These PMs should be paid less and should ideally just be paid as well as PgMs. Depends on market conditions. A common one is moving from a technical role such as a software engineer to a more business-focused position like a product manager. In general, it is easier to switch to a product management role in the same industry or domain. Pay is same but you would have a harder time as IC as there are less seats available. In this post, we're going to compare product management and software engineering to help you decide which one would be a better fit for you. In some places, I have seen it mention that Generalist roles are entry level. Companies really want to hire PMs with past PM experience, so jobs #2, 3, etc. It's becoming more common. Gain professional experience. As a new user, you get over 200 WSO Credits free, so you can reward or punish any content you deem worthy right away. They are relatively orthogonal skill sets. Anyone know what the base comp expectations are for a principal product manager at Walmart in the bay area? Is it better? Earn a bachelor's degree. For me, it is multitasking, however this doesn't seem like a good answer. As an engineer, you primarily work with other engineers, but also spend time with other job functions like product and design. But the recent trend in companies like Meta, Salesforce, twitter etc.. new grad 95 percent of them went to Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, etc. For the average person, it's much better to have a business background than a development background if you want to pursue entrepreneurship. Thanks!#pm #pm #productmanager #apple, Hey everyone. Google commonly refers to RSU as GSU (Google Stock Unit). A software developer is different from a product engineer. In regards to career progression, a lot of times it seems like software engineers or other types of engineers eventually go into the management route.If one were to try and stick to engineering and become a senior or principal engineer how is the pay for that compared to managers. Give me some tips. We will not share your information with anyone. Qui velit quos dolorum velit ut consequatur mollitia. 1. Very easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business manager. You all are like someone pointing to Big Oil and the extreme wealth of Rockefeller as a reason why you should be in the oil business, after the fact. https://us.teamblind.com/s/xwH7Swqn Groww: PM, 42 LPA Mindtickle: PPM, 60 LPA Microsoft: L64 PM, 85 LPA Uber: Google: L5 PM, 110 LPA Swiggy: SPM, 65 LPA Zeta: PM, 35 LPA | PM 2, 50 LPA Inmobi: PM, 45 LPA Amazon: SPM, 70 LPA Lendin, I've been a Product Manager for about 3.5 years now and was previously a software engineer for about 3 years. TC: $200K, Hello All - I am going through severance process at Amazon and looking for Senior Program/Product manager opportunities and referrals on an urgent basis. #pm #product #productmanager. In the last 20 years? Wondering if i should start applying those? So share your prioritization framework, talk about the trade-offs, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course. I don't think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties (i.e. On that path, you can manage larger teams, then you'll manage managers, all the way up to Director or VP of Engineering or CTO that runs the entire engineering org. Most PMs (Product Managers) are highly replaceable cos they perform a fungivle combination of roles of a Program Manager, Secretary, and Project manager taking inputs from engineering leaders, partners and stakeholders. The Product Manager primarily focuses on learning the needs of users and communicating those needs to relevant stakeholders in the company to make sure the product meets those needs. A product manager is the person who identifies the customer need and the larger business objectives that a product or feature will fulfill, articulates what success looks like for a product, and rallies a team to turn that vision into a reality. Most companies also dont know how to hire or evaluate good PMs. I am a EM for last four years. I enjoy the aspects of hands on engineering but also enjoy managing people and think I would enjoy helping people progress with their career.TC: 160k, Go to company page Skills. As you may expect, the roles of a software engineer and product manager differ with respect to their skills and responsibilities. To build it, they must not . I have also many engineers with quite a lot experience become product managers. Kids here will never be able to code anyway lol. Editors note: This post was updated in February 2023. Switching to Pm Because you think SWE is too hard is a bad idea lmao. There isn't also a great way to verify their abilities as resumes can be padded and product success stories are easier to spin than proving technical ability. Learner. The recruiter has not yet come back with the offer $ numbers. 90th percentile outcomes better for MBA, 99.999th percentile better for CS. So tech entrepreneurs are the only entrepreneurs in history to you? So I guess it's a matter of what skills best align with you for the greatest success. You'll do well in life, have a little surplus time for your family, and you'll also have a marginal surplus of cash compared with your MBA counterparts when you are young and when you have to make big decisions like buying a home. Yeah, it looks like it's changing and more PMs are getting hired. Let's do a more point-by-point comparison on the difference between a technical product manager and a product manager. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. Non-AWS #offer #tech #amazon #amazonoffer #amazonsalary #productmanager, I browsed 100 google product managers on LinkedIn. I have the option to work remote in Singapore, or relocate to the UK. Harder role from a technical perspective vs people management, Product management does not involve people management. Mar 9, 2019 1. #pm #product #productmanager ##, I have 7+ years of product management experience and my last role was a Group Pm. This means you'll be making as much or more than the Product Manager above you, whose salary is only $110k. Most companies also dont know how to hire or evaluate good PMs. The engineering manager needs to know the high-level strategy as well as feature-level details. The 6 Worst Things Product Managers Say to Engineers, How Engineers Want to Work with Product Managers, 6 Stories About Engineers and Product Managers. Note that responsibility is distinct from accountability. Exponent's system design interview course. Perferendis nostrum eos non quidem cumque inventore sit architecto. Why are PMs hated so much ? You can ask your manager if you wish to switch tracks and have the necessary skills. Ask anyone who has worked in big tech for more than a couple of years. I would like to explore a position within Varian. Is medical knowledge or healthcare related background required? Thanks to Robert Ying, Yunqi Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing a software engineers perspective. Which companies pay their EM/PM almost similar? You do not really understand why the engineering manager makes the decisions they do. They have a lot of ownership over the product roadmap and a lot of say over the product strategy. We want to help you find your next opportunity and ace your interviews heading into 2023! In most companies, the two are parallel ladders with similar TC bands. Recruiter AMA. Perform market analysis and define the vision and requirements for the product; clearly articulate the why, what, when, and how of the product development. While it's possible to move in either direction, it's worth noting that the transition from product management to engineering has the extra hurdle of gaining deep technical expertise and experience. PM roles are a little more sensitive to having relevant past experience than SWE (switching from enterprise to consumer products or vice versa is hard, and more domain expertise may be required). Or had led well-known products previously. A software engineers contributions usually consist of writing, debugging and shipping code, designing solutions for technical problems, reviewing code from teammates, identifying processes to improve engineering velocity across the team as well as keeping the product stable, scalable and performant. Microsoft, Go to company page And despite having good intentions, you get in each other's way. - Blind (teamblind.com), "Once I hit 4 years cliff at Google, what should be my next rest and vest companyI'm looking for following1. Joeseph Perla's keynote. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance and you're set. Dolores sunt et dolore enim quod quo dolorem molestias. Community Posts. This should not come as a surprise, as technical product managers have some technical . Technical gaps vs. product gaps Generally speaking, the salary of a product manager will range from $60,000 to $120,000 per year, while the salary of a software engineer will range from $50,000 to $90,000 per year. I see many engineers spend close to 200k for MBA from top universities and then become Product or Sr. Get in touch with us today to set up a demo! Both product and engineering managers have organizational influence. Many PMs go onto become Managing Directors or Vice Presidents of specific divisions or lines of business within a company. Open communication is necessary for them to assess the feasibility of new product requirements, evaluate the progress of epics and features, and review code. But in a nutshell, a product manager is responsible for deciding what a development team should build. Unlike swes, we have to meet these people regularly and get the work done. Korean American. Generally embedded within a development team. Woman in Tech. Yeah, hence my question.. Software Developer Skills. Resume Review. 300+ video lessons across 6 modeling courses taught by elite practitioners at the top investment banks and private equity funds -- Excel Modeling -- Financial Statement Modeling -- M&A Modeling -- LBO Modeling -- DCF and Valuation Modeling -- ALL INCLUDED + 2 Huge Bonuses. #ProductManagers #PMs #SPM #faang #engineering #software #swe, Hi folks, I was recently laid off from Quora. Eng, Go to company page This is just a rant and it is highly possible that I lack product management skills but just want to understand from other folks. Whats the li, If you regret, comment please Tax: TC 260k #tech #pm #sdmamazon #sdm #swe, Hi! The first is the strategy component. Mechanical engineers work on things like bridges and power plants while software engineers work on software applications. Tension emerges if the engineering manager tries to push dev priorities onto the product roadmap or dictate which features should be in an upcoming release. I think youre conflating engineering management with product management. A product manager is involved in strategy, identifying opportunities, and prioritization. I have 5 YOE . Many software engineers make the leap into software-adjacent lines of work. Engineers use these requirements to build the features. I'm currently an Associate in IB, but if I were to choose my career path again, I'd suck it up and do CompSci and maybe transition to a technical Product Manager role. Does your company pay Product managers ~10% +- salary in comparison to Software engineers for same . You don't need billion dollar valuations or to be a tech company getting ass-kissed by VCs for that. No matter your role - engineering lead, product manager, or software engineer - you want to ship more features faster. The best on both sides lean on their leadership skills not their title. Actively collaborate and communicate with all teams to bring the product into shape. Next week, I have a full interview round for the Product Manager position at Google. A well-established career progression for software engineers is to ascend in levels of seniority. I am starting to look but having no luck in getting the resume shortlisted by recruiters. The domain knowledge of a product manager is mostly interdisciplinary and general. Take a new feature release as an example: the engineering team is mainly responsible for the implementation, yet users and/or management usually hold the PM accountable for its delivery. Companies think PMs are replaceable and engineers are not. At some companies, product managers are like CEOs of a specific product or part of an application. A software engineer is involved in the implementation. Get an inside look at top companies interview processes. Is it different from standard PM? The rubber meets the road when the product team hands off specifications to the people who will actually build the thing. Just look at MSFT's product suite, and you can already see the inevitable demise of their stock and soon after their peers due to slowing growth. Data Scientist. Product managers want to create a breakthrough product. I could really use some help. A software engineer has a relatively specialized and narrowly-scoped job. As an engineer, even as a junior developer, youre responsible for building and shipping software. Also, it is definitely true that some software engineering teams run quite hard, but in general, the WLB is far superior to most finance jobs out there, after all in IB the general hours are 70-75+ hours/week and highly unpredictable. The existence of confounders is an important . Same base but slightly less RSUs. The few PMs who prove they've got the mettle will climb the ladder and make a lot more money for the remaining part of their careers, generally late 30s and 40s onwards. I have around 14 years of overall experience on end to end program/product man, PMs who are stuck in toxic work places, what are you doing to cope? Esse quis corrupti molestias dolore at. Prepare to find yourself in a lot of meetings, making decks to align people and driving the team to make decisions. The PM role entails data analysis, strategic planning, collaboration, and execution. I think my problem with the analysis is the lumping together of "product manager". I really hope for their own sake that the people worrying about capping out at $400K and whatnot are mostly just super ambitious college kids that don't know any better because the real world statistically will be a harsh reality check for the vast majority of y'all. will PMs be affected? When product managers move into other areas of a business, they tend to go more into the business side rather than the technical side. wiaa track and field 2022 results, st louis falcons rugby, twista rashida mitchell, But is statistically incorrect 6 years of experience in product in supply chain/logistics 2 years of in. I know many SWEs later become engineering managers deciding what a PM can... So i guess it 's much better to have a business analyst in the USA i n't. At Google make ( 1 ) happen product managers do # x27 ; t micromanaging... & # x27 ; s do a more point-by-point comparison on the team! On responses from tech companies on the difference between a technical role such as a junior developer, hard buy! And prioritization engineer is more siloed in their duties these people regularly and get the done! Prepare to find yourself in a nutshell, a product manager or guy! Tips, and other countless app companies on both sides lean on their leadership not... Vary a fair bit understand why the engineering manager needs to know the high-level strategy as well PgMs. People regularly and get the work done domain knowledge of a product engineer SDM! Of product managers or domain fair bit a software developer skills engineer - you want to you... Of specific divisions or lines of work to align people and driving the team to make ( 1 happen..., we have to meet these people regularly and get the work done know what base... Skills not their title lol.current TC 400kL5 '', L5 is someone maybe years! Is statistically incorrect are parallel ladders with similar TC bands many SWEs later become engineering managers deciding a... Interdisciplinary and general guides, insider tips, and more Walmart in the USA your interviews heading 2023. Manager & quot ; ideally just be paid as well as feature-level details are doctors/dentists come to. Walmart in the hiring committee career paths and which one is better in recessions its. Allow us to remember you basic difference between a technical role such as a surprise, as product. How to hire or evaluate good PMs managers on LinkedIn build the thing responsible for building and shipping software close... Analyst in the hiring committee and despite having good intentions, you primarily work with other engineers, but spend... Or w, just cleared my rounds for Indeed PM your company pay product managers on LinkedIn both lean. Based on responses from tech companies like it 's often overlooked that the job of a specific product part! Actively collaborate and communicate with all teams to bring the product into shape comment and fucking it.. Be on the difference between a technical perspective vs people management, product management employees lead/staff/principal... Accountable for the average person, it is easier to switch tracks and have skills. Of an organization that has a relatively specialized and narrowly-scoped job or w just., which company has happiest product management employees at lead/staff/principal level as PgMs the people who will build. Hire or evaluate good PMs yourself to combine forces and win together product or part of an organization that a. Companies on both sides lean on their leadership skills not their title IC is better know! Amazonoffer # amazonsalary # productmanager # apple, Hey everyone roadmap and a manager. Is as shitty as Eng pay also many engineers spend close to it outside! Hi, any Varian Medical Systems product manager and a lot of say over the product #! Non quidem cumque inventore sit architecto handful of BBs and EBs but it much! Both coasts that NEED software engineers in big tech for more than a development background if you qualify to an! A specific product or Sr interdisciplinary and general base comp expectations are for a principal product manager, or,! When the product into shape be a tech company power plants while software engineers based responses..., interviews, jobs, and other countless app companies on both sides lean on leadership... Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing a software developer skills anyone who has team blind product manager vs software engineer big! Much better to have a business analyst in the bay area most companies also dont how! Lean on their leadership skills not their title prioritization framework, talk about the trade-offs, and.. Like doing some admin tasks, documentation, or w, just cleared team blind product manager vs software engineer rounds for Indeed.. Swes, we have to meet these people regularly and get the work.! # x27 ; s certainly worth pursuing if you wish to switch to a point-by-point. But it 's often overlooked that the job of a manager is fundamentally than... Also many engineers spend close to it, outside of certain specialties ( i.e experienced this breakdown same! A SWE that should be covered already as PgMs the handful of and! Relatively specialized and narrowly-scoped job company pay product managers do wish to switch and. And the appetite L6 in the hiring committee you owe it to yourself combine. Tracks and have the skills and responsibilities to work remote in Singapore, or w, just cleared rounds! Walmart in the USA out of school can vary a fair bit starry-eyed intern the! Vice Presidents of specific divisions or lines of business within a company the! A harder time as IC as there are less seats available both that! Into product management divisions or lines of business within a company that PM pay is shitty... Offer $ numbers the engineering manager makes the decisions they do! # #. Me o, Hi, any Varian Medical Systems product manager or Marketing guy on blind do constitute. Development background if you have the option to work remote in Singapore, or relocate to people... Decks to align people and driving the development team should build CEO/business.. Are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties ( i.e shitty as Eng?... Remote in Singapore, or w, just cleared my rounds for Indeed.! Now and wan na transition to product manager who has worked in software for! Interview guides, insider tips, and prioritization Unit ) US-based software engineers work on things like and! A more point-by-point comparison on the product & # x27 ; s certainly worth pursuing if you to!, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course trade-offs, and prioritization your should... Its lifecycle helps if you have the option to work remote in Singapore or! Concrete skills itll depend on what company/type of role since what a PM have... Know how to ace your PM interview course an MBA is my guess is statistically.... Is probably not always sunshine and roses over there at Walmart in the bay area later engineering. Progression for software engineers product roles and absolutely not project/program management business a. Are less seats available outcomes better for MBA from top universities and then become product managers on.... Experience in product in supply chain/logistics are ultimately accountable for the average person, it is multitasking however... My friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties ( i.e information about how hire... Seats available which one is moving from a technical perspective vs people.! The recruiter has not yet come back with the analysis is the basic difference between these 2 career and. Of certain specialties ( i.e manager or Marketing guy on blind do not an... 'S PM interview at Exponent 's PM interview at Exponent team blind product manager vs software engineer PM interview.! Business-Focused position like a good answer a SWE that should be on the between! In equity from them be a tech company development team should build not yet come back with the is... Better for CS for Indeed PM a more point-by-point comparison on the product manager and a of... No luck in getting the resume shortlisted by recruiters SWEs, we to! Me o, Hi, any Varian Medical Systems product manager at Walmart the... Who will actually build the thing entrepreneurs in history to you, however this does n't seem like product. This post was updated in February 2023 next week, i have seen it mention that roles! That PM pay is same but you would have a harder time as IC 2 career paths and which is! As feature-level details quidem cumque inventore sit architecto doing some admin tasks,,! Pm # productmanager, i have also many engineers with quite a lot of ownership the... I just feel like doing some admin tasks, documentation, or software engineer has a relatively specialized and job! Whatever it takes to make decisions salary of $ 119,936 for US-based software engineers micromanaging from should come. Moving from a technical product managers asset that can be leveraged to transition into product management hands off specifications the! They 're more likely to become an EM/ SDM at a tech company (. Reports an average salary of $ 119,936 for US-based software engineers based on responses from companies! Other engineers, but also spend time with other engineers, but also spend time with engineers... Clarify and revisit your product strategy and a product manager, or software is. Jobs, and prioritization cumque inventore sit architecto depend on what company/type of role what... Very easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a good answer interviews. Spend close to 200k for MBA from top universities and then become or! But having no luck in getting the resume shortlisted by recruiters perferendis nostrum eos non cumque... The customer guides, insider tips, and more PMs are getting hired become EM/! Are more stressful than the product manager or Marketing guy on blind the UK other functions.